Mould / Mastering SID codes guidelines needed

How can a someone tell mastering SID codes apart from Mould SID codes?
Personally I have no idea, all I see is IFPI codes.

Even though these have been added as unique items in the BAOI dropdown menu, there's nothing about them in the guidelines: http://discogs.programascracks.com/help/submission-guidelines-release-barcode.html
In my opinion guidelines must be added for these new options.

Mastering SID code always starts with the letter "L".
There's also RSG §6.8., but it doesn't say Mastering nor Mould.

jweijde
In my opinion guidelines must be added for these new options.

I agree.

Also see the picture on page 8: http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/sid-code-implementation-guide.pdf

actually the whole document is pretty much the best source on SID codes there is...

Then we have the Stebbing Recording Centre Ltd. IFPI code. On all their manufactured discs it is IFPI P801 followed by a number.

eg.

http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various-November-99-Sampler/release/2962054
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Bon-Jovi-The-Circle/release/3749898
http://discogs.programascracks.com/David-Dallas-Buffalo-Man/release/4207259

http://home.lyse.net/bki/met/ifpi-codes.html lists it as IFPI8** in the mould column. However it is more often than not the only code on the disc and it appears in the outer ring as part of the matrix string, not the inner ring (I've never seen it there).

If a plant does not have glass mastering facilities and they get someone who isn't ed with the IFPI to do the glass masters, or i they use a glass master which pre-dates the SID implementation date, then there will be no mastering SID code.

All fine, but how is an average submitter going to know which IFPI to enter as Mould and which one for mastering? There should atleast be something in the BAOI guidelines that explains what they are and how they can be identified.

jweijde
There should atleast be something in the BAOI guidelines that explains what they are and how they can be identified.

Sure. Have you send SR to nik yet?

It's easy to add and reasonable to expect so, it's not mandatory information though.

I think a very short description of what they are and where they are typically found with a note about common anomalies (e.g: multiple mould codes and that sometimes the two codes are from different manufacturers) should be included in the guidelines along with a link to the IFPI's own implementation guide for those who want further information. I'm more than happy to write a short draft to be utilised.

Eviltoastman
or i they use a glass master which pre-dates the SID implementation date, then there will be no mastering SID code.

yep but the Stebbing code appears where the mastering code would be expected to appear. Given how anal RIANZ are about all this sort of thing I'm rather surprised that one of the biggest manufacturers in Australasia in recent year has this code and has used it for some 20 years this way.

I know a few people there. May ask.

If I'm reading the three subs correctly, then there's nothing where the mastering SID should be, instead they've added the mould SID in with the matrix, though that could just be bunched in with the matrix. I'd like to see one if possible. Normally the mastering SID code is offset from and separate from the matrix string in much smaller text in the mirror band.

http://madonnadiscography.pl/images/covers/6460/5.jpeg here's one showing the IFPI P801, but it also has IFPI LK36...

Quite typical of an Aussie / NZ CD that the glass master is sent to them for replication. The SID within the matrix string is just a duplication of the mould SID code as suspected. Mastering SID codes are normally offset from the matrix as in Anssisal's example.

How's this for a guideline proposal?

5.X.X
SID codes (Source Identification Codes) were introduced in 1994 by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) in order to help combat piracy. The mastering SID code is usually found in the matrix area/mirror band of a CD. The mould SID code is usually found in the mould/hub of a CD.

The mastering SID code identifies where the glass master for the CD was made. The mould SID code identifies where the CD was pressed.

A mastering SID code must always start with the letter 'L'. A mould SID code can start with any letter apart from "I", "O", "S" and "Q".

Though untypical, some releases may have the SID codes repeated in the matrix string itself. Rarer still, a release may sometimes have more than one mould SID code. Further details about SID codes and their implementation can be found here:
http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/sid-code-implementation-guide.pdf

A release with SID codes cannot have been released before 1994. If the date cannot be established with a citation or an adequate explanation, the date should be left blank.

Looking good.

These are small things, but maybe add (Source Identification) somewhere to explain the SID?
And also mention that mastering SID code always(?) starts with the letter "L"?

I just modified it.

Looking even better. :)

Would it be an overkill to add the "Mould SID Codes can often be hard to read" -part from RSG §6.8.?

Eviltoastman
How's this for a guideline proposal?

That's a good start.

Eviltoastman
The mastering SID code identifies where the glass master for the CD was made. The mould SID code identifies where the CD was pressed.

This suggests that all CDs with the same SID code were made/pressed by the same manufacturer. Is that true?

Eviltoastman
A release with SID codes cannot have been released before 1994

I'd say a disc without SID codes can not have been pressed before 1994. The release itself can be from before 1994.

jweijde
This suggests that all CDs with the same SID code were made/pressed by the same manufacturer. Is that true?

I see what you're saying, it needs a clause in there advising that "the mastering SID code belongs to the LBR/Plant and the plant can change owners, SIDs should not be used on their own to add credits to a release."

I think that's a must.

jweijde
I'd say a disc without SID codes can not have been pressed before 1994. The release itself can be from before 1994.

The opposite is true. A disc without SID codes will most often have been pressed before 1994.

5.X.X
SID codes (Source Identification Codes) were introduced in 1994 by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) in order to help combat piracy. The mastering SID code is usually found in the matrix area/mirror band of a CD. The mould SID code is usually found in the mould/hub of a CD.

The mastering SID code identifies the machinery used to make the glass master. The mould SID code identifies the plant where the CD was pressed. SID codes should not be used to identify manufacturing plants or glass mastering facilities however are the codes may transfer from owner to owner of the equipment and/or pressplant.

A mastering SID code must always start with the letter 'L'. A mould SID code can start with any letter apart from "I", "O", "S" and "Q".

Though untypical, some releases may have the SID codes repeated in the matrix string itself. Rarer still, a release may sometimes have more than one mould SID code. Further details about SID codes and their implementation can be found here:
http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/sid-code-implementation-guide.pdf

A release with SID codes cannot have been made before 1994. If the date cannot be established with a citation or an adequate explanation, the date should be left blank.

jweijde
I'd say a disc without SID codes can not have been pressed before 1994. The release itself can be from before 1994.

I think you meant "...a disc with..." ?

Bump

Eviltoastman
SID codes (Source Identification Codes) were introduced in 1994 by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) in order to help combat piracy. The mastering SID code is usually found in the matrix area/mirror band of a CD. The mould SID code is usually found in the mould/hub of a CD.

^maybe tack this on to the end of the last sentence:

The mould SID code is usually found in the mould/hub of a CD molded into the plastic of the disc.

?

Yes, seems appropriate. Has nik been invited?

Eviltoastman
Has nik been invited?

Is now.

Thanks folks, this has now been added to the guidelines. I put it in as RSG §5.3 and moved the other numbers down one.

Thanks!

offtopic: why doesn't my "Help" page show the list of SRs anymore?

Thanks Nik. I'm extremely pleased that my guideline proposal was good enough.

I have the same SR issue as Anssisal.

anssisal
Thanks!offtopic: why doesn't my "Help" page show the list of SRs anymore?

anssisal
offtopic: why doesn't my "Help" page show the list of SRs anymore?

Eviltoastman
I have the same SR issue as Anssisal.

if you click the button "new request" at the help site:
http://discogs.programascracks.com/help

appears the complete list now.
https://discogs.programascracks.com//new

Something's wrong with this sentence:
"SID codes should not be used to identify manufacturing plants or glass mastering facilities however are the codes may transfer from owner to owner of the equipment and/or pressplant."

Thanks, Eastersun, still I would like to see the list back in the Help page.

"plants or glass mastering facilities however are the codes may transfer from owner to owner of the equipment and/or pressplant".

Should be "as".

Guidelines look good to me, but they should include the direction for the to enter "IFPI" along with the code, as long as "IFPI" is present (usually, but not always, is). This came up recently in a thread; I can find the link if it's needed.

ChampionJames
Guidelines look good to me, but they should include the direction for the to enter "IFPI" along with the code, as long as "IFPI" is present (usually, but not always, is). This came up recently in a thread; I can find the link if it's needed.

I this, it was just before the weekend. I agree it would be useful and straightforward to add that in there.

ChampionJames
but they should include the direction for the to enter "IFPI" along with the code, as long as "IFPI" is present (usually, but not always, is).

+1 Very good point.
Should it also say, that you should enter "ifpi" (all lowercase) if it's written so in the release?

anssisal
Should it also say, that you should enter "ifpi" (all lowercase) if it's written so in the release?

Yes, and no bloody florins! *grrrr*

Opdiner
Then we have the Stebbing Recording Centre Ltd. IFPI code. On all their manufactured discs it is IFPI P801 followed by a number.

That's a mould code.

The thoughts in this thread really need formulating into this 'runout practices' thread;
http://discogs.programascracks.com/help/forums/topic/364718

I'm not sure that's really needed since it's already now a guideline with seemingly minor tweaks required to finalise it.

anssisal
offtopic: why doesn't my "Help" page show the list of SRs anymore?

Eviltoastman
I have the same SR issue as Anssisal.

Eastersun
if you click the button "new request" at the help site:
http://discogs.programascracks.com/help

appears the complete list now.
https://discogs.programascracks.com//new

They were fixing a bug which prevented some (all?) s from viewing any previous requests beyond page 1 (for those who had multiple pages of past requests), I'm guessing it's " help section ticket pagination broken" on the Projects page which is marked as "Done":
http://discogs.programascracks.com/projects