ANV for Various [Artists] Placeholder

I didn't think this was allowed? Since the placeholder isn't even an artist name to variate? http://discogs.programascracks.com/history?release=1298059#latest

maxxyme
- "...but ANV's for placeholders were always allowed... nik has even validated it:
http://discogs.programascracks.com/groups/topic/131960#1720433
http://discogs.programascracks.com/groups/topic/143476#1859022

^ Private mod forum topics.

Someone just pointed these out to me:

http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...tled/release/2151973
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...-Pure/release/580735
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...Trax/release/1298059
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...l-VI/release/1608767
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...ol-V/release/1330924
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...-One/release/1901299
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...-100/release/1784064
http://discogs.programascracks.com/Various...n-03/release/2022196
etc..

This is incorrect, is it not?

i cannot see any reason why simply ''Various'' is not used there, makes no sense to me to do that 0_O

'Various' should be used, creating an empty ANV serves no database purpose, the guidelines do not expressly forbid the usage though.

Various - Untitled doesn't even have 'Various Artists' on the artwork, as far as I can tell the release is mentioned as being 'various artists' on the website.

It's been discouraged but not forbidden - forget where but have seen a case where it seemed unavoidable.

Before it was discouraged, however, it was an open topic on mod forums, where it was still open for conversation AFAIK.

I thought it was forbidden to set an ANV to any placeholder, just because it just doesn't make any sense, it serves no purpose. If they were actual entries, like my favorite Traditional, then I think those ANVs would be ok.

consort
it was an open topic on mod forums, where it was still open for conversation AFAIK.

Yeah, nothing final is stated in those mod forum threads. And the other is 2 years old, and the other 3 years, so a lot of has changed since then.

auboisdormant
Yeah, nothing final is stated in those mod forum threads. And the other is 2 years old, and the other 3 years, so a lot of has changed since then.

Thanks for pointing this out; it's very true - I was warned of this past happening (with slight venom) when systematically undoing Various + ANVs ...

http://discogs.programascracks.com/help/forums/topic/186349#2350166

^^ hmm, so no real statement of what to do there either by Nik.

"In any case, I have probably stated in the past that ANVs should not be used on placeholders, although this opinion did not make it to the guidelines. If it stands that ANVs on placeholders doesn't cause any problems, I'd reconsider my opinion on this. Further, for such rules, I'd really prefer they were disallowed at the submission form level (if we think they are needed) rather than creating yet more guidelines."

So apples or pears anyone?

i do not see any point in using placeholders due to the fact we probably already get enough s here using Various Artists instead of Various, this will only make things worse IMO and add the fact it doesn't make anything better in the db does it? to me it is the same as adding credits like Producer [Produced By] , it has absolutely no positive effect on the way the site is laid out whatsoever
that's my 2 cents anyway :)

Starfish Pool Meets Various Artists* - Lymph Four

is an example of where, by virtue of compound main artist, it seems more difficult to avoid

consort
but have seen a case where it seemed unavoidable.

And I was thinking 'what could that possibly be?' :)

That does seem difficult to avoid. With possible choices of

1.
Artist: Starfish Pool
Title: "Meets Various Artists - Lymph Four"

2.
Artist: Starfish Pool
Title: "Starfish Pool Meets Various Artists - Lymph Four"

3.
Alias: "Starfish Pool Meets Various Artists"
Title: "Lymph Four"

4.
Apply ANV as exampled.

In fact, although that pic is rather small, isn't it printed with: Starfish Poll - Starfish Pool Meets Various Artists"

hafler3o
no real statement of what to do there either by Nik.

I wouldn't worry about it. It seems ok to do it as long as it is a correct ANV. I'd like the placeholder pages opened up.

InDaMode
In fact, although that pic is rather small, isn't it printed with: Starfish Poll - Starfish Pool Meets Various Artists"

quite possible! perhaps we should ignore that for the time being as it may serve as an example where a stiff rule would be disadvantageous ... ?

edit: lol, solved :)

nik
It seems ok to do it as long as it is a correct ANV.

fair enough ;)

nik
It seems ok to do it as long as it is a correct ANV

Yeah, it doesn't really seem to cause a problem. Although it's a bit strange, and seemingly unnecessary. But I guess if it's needed...

nik
I'd like the placeholder pages opened up.

hehe, I'm not sure the "Various" page would ever open. Or would seem to take forever. :)

nik
I'd like the placeholder pages opened up.

Same here.

auboisdormant

Same here.

Thirded :)

Cool that this was already set to rest, forgot to mention earlier that commonly unavoidable is ANV to Unknown Artist. See this frequently. New example:

Liner Notes - Une Religieuse :)

consort
that commonly unavoidable is ANV to Unknown Artist.

But - I think s should be careful with this. If we take things literally, "Une Religieuse" is not really a variation of "Unknown Artist", though I guess it can be understood as "Une Religieuse Inconnue". ;) And a lot of times you see "Children" and "Chorus" (and others) as ANVs of Unknown Artist, which are not correct IMHO.

It's not a major thing, but if a release says 'Various Artist' I'd like to be able to reflect that with an ANV. It doesn't make much difference and I don't see why anyone would be up in arms about it.