UK or UK&Europe

http://discogs.programascracks.com/submissions?mode=saved#item=release/1586679

Many are changed from UK & Europe to Europe and vice versa. Which is correct; and if it was distributed in UK and Europe, wouldn't the country be Europe. UK is still part of Europe. There was an argument, that UK isn't part of continental Europe. Then neither is Ireland. If there was a Irish release, that was distributed in Europe, would the country be Europe. It seems people think UK is a separate entity from Europe. If Europe means continental Europe, then UK & Europe is correct. No gl to continental Europe; so as per submission as linked above, is the country Europe or UK & Europe?

Why do you imagine that a UK & Europe tag exists if we are supposed to assume that the UK is part of Europe. Hmmm?

if we are supposed to assume that the UK is part of Europe

But UK is part of Europe, no assuming needed.

Do you not understand that because we have a tag called "UK & Europe", we are therefore not supposed to assume on this site that the UK is part of Europe, otherwise there would be no need for this tag. Can you just think about that for a few minutes before repeating the same thing over again?

ChampionJames
Do you not understand that because we have a tag called "UK & Europe", we are therefore not supposed to assume on this site that the UK is part of Europe, otherwise there would be no need for this tag. Can you just think about that for a few minutes before repeating the same thing over again?

+1 UK is often treated separately from Europe in of marketing releases.

Then thousands of things tagged Europe are wrong......

MusicNutter
Then thousands of things tagged Europe are wrong......

Very possible, but that doesn't very high on the scale of database brokenness around here.

I don't pay much attention to the Country field anyway. I rather assume it will be wrong, misleading, or incomplete. Better to examine the labels and markings and distribution notices to determine one version from another. (Incidentally, this is why it's necessary to keep the full boilerplate notices in the Notes section and why it's often so frustrating when s remove it when adding companies to the LCCN.)

http://discogs.programascracks.com/Clannad-Legend/release/802138

One example of a Europe being correct.

Maybe true; I heard arguments when I had something titled as UK & Europe, was told to use Europe. Then when I used UK & Eurupe; was told Europe is correct.....

MusicNutter
Maybe true; I heard arguments when I had something titled as UK & Europe, was told to use Europe. Then when I used UK & Eurupe; was told Europe is correct.....

We already resolved this. We resolved it. The reason that a "UK & Europe" tag exists is because it is not the same as the "Europe" tag. I don't know how else to explain this to you. They are different. Use the one that is accurate.

I get what you mean; and not going against that. Just been told different things. If it has distribution codes for UK, and , the country is UK & Europe, correct?

MusicNutter
If it has distribution codes for UK, and , the country is UK & Europe, correct?

Yes.

So if that is correct, would this be Europe

http://discogs.programascracks.com/submissions?mode=saved#item=release/1586679

MusicNutter If it has distribution codes for UK, and , the country is UK & Europe, correct?

Yes.

Not always.
Sometimes artwork is made to be used for various pressings where only for example the cat# is different for different countries. This way it's cheaper for labels to manufacture the releases.
In these cases the distribution info present on the release are the same for all editions, however the countries can still be different and not exactly matching the distribution codes.

JeroenG8
In these cases the distribution info present on the release are the same for all editions, however the countries can still be different and not exactly matching the distribution codes

Patric - Love Me
UK pressing + distribution code for .

Patric - Love Me
German pressing + distribution code for .

Patric - Love Me
French pressing.

So *officially* these releases should be tagged as:
1) UK &
2) &
3) .

!

Sometimes I wonder if we're not reading TOO much in these distribution codes.
It's often difficult enough to figure out the country of release, and now with all these additional options...hm.

timetogo
+1 UK is often treated separately from Europe in of marketing releases.

Very rarely. The release is normally either European inclusive of UK or just a UK release. The criteria for using it is usually from faulty logic and a lack of knowledge about the markets and a simplistic appreciation and knowledge of the role of rights societies and distribution codes.

The majority of UK releases I own include so called French distribution codes and so called German label codes. On major labels they should in the majority of cases be ignored when considering the country of release.

http://discogs.programascracks.com/Dido-No-Angel/release/1586679 - This release does not show a split market anywhere, using UK and Europe is not warranted. Europe covers it.

JeroenG8
Sometimes artwork is made to be used for various pressings where only for example the cat# is different for different countries. This way it's cheaper for labels to manufacture the releases.
In these cases the distribution info present on the release are the same for all editions, however the countries can still be different and not exactly matching the distribution codes.

zipjezopje
Sometimes I wonder if we're not reading TOO much in these distribution codes.
It's often difficult enough to figure out the country of release, and now with all these additional options...hm.

Eviltoastman
Very rarely. The release is normally either European inclusive of UK or just a UK release.

All valid points, but this is definitely over-complicating things to an extreme extent when it comes to what the OP was asking.... MusicNutter was (basically) trying to argue that the Europe tag and the UK & Europe tag are identical. I was attempting to allow logic to seep in and show otherwise, that's all.

True; I would change country to UK & Europe based on distribution codes.

MusicNutter
I would change country to UK & Europe based on duration codes.

What on earth is a duration code?

I meant distribution codes; very early here.

I think he means distribution codes.

I did; when I made that comment, it was 4ish am.

MusicNutter
True; I would change country to UK & Europe based on distribution codes.

I wouldn't if what was suspected to be a UK release carried what are referred to as French distribution codes, mainly because nearly all UK releases I own include as par for the course include a "French" distribution code. We know so little about them that all we know is what we observe, and what I see is similar to the "German" label codes, that the majors would add them to releases irrespective of the individual country of release.

It remains to be seen if this [what we refer to as distribution codes which have no professional or official reference under this term] is an indicator that it was released for the French market (certainly not true in many, many cases) or if it simply allowed the thing to be sold in if it ended up there, such as imports etc.

I have written to a few French agencies which I thought may offer an insight, but my French is poor and I;ve yet to receive a reply.

The problem is that people rely too much on one thing for determing the country.
At one point it was the Rights Society, which now proves that as a standalone source is far from correct a lot of the times.
At one point it was the country of manufacture, which has proven far from correct in may times by now.
It has been the language written on the release (for example, German language indicates a German release), which has proven wrong too in many cases.
I have seen runouts being the source of the country chosen by people, again proven not correct all the time.
The country where the label is seated has been the source of the country of release for some people, again proving wrong lots of times.
And now it is the presence of distribution codes on a release, which also is not correct in a lot of cases.

The country of release can be determined from a lot of things, and most of the times it is a combination of all the above plus the use of common sense. And especially the last thing is lacking sometimes.
For example a release which is Dutch speaking, having Dutch Rights Society, Made in Holland, but containing French distribution codes is very likely a Dutch or Benelux release, but NOT a French or Europe. Why would a Dutchspeaking record being releases outside the Dutchspeaking territories. I am not saying it is impossible, but it's not very likely at all!

JeroenG8
The problem is

that the guidelines can be interpreted in many ways depending how you look at it.

Has this discussion not been had umpteen times and s still do not understand it by just looking at the guidelines? It is obvious to me there are major problems with the country tag, as so many misinterpret it. So what can you do to make things clearer, for new s who already struggle with all the other bits? Do the guidelines need some kind of expanding to explain all the possibilities?

Can you understand when many s see Europe as Europe and it does not make sense to them to have a UK & Europe tag, as this is not exactly clear from any guidelines? Too confusing for most.

'UK & Europe' was added to use when the release had indications (for example, distribution) that was specific to the UK as well as Europe. It should only be used in those situations (I think the original example in this thread is one). In all other cases, 'Europe' is fine.

Perhaps, you're right, regarding distribution codes.

Eviltoastman
Very rarely. The release is normally either European inclusive of UK....

Then 'UK' should not be precluded from the tag.
By stating just 'Europe' it negates the existence of the 'UK & Europe' tag - leaving the field open for the same release to also be entered as just 'UK'.... which may then conflict with the issue that really is 'UK'... ;)

True; nik says to use UK & Europe for distribution codes. Anything else, is Europe.

MusicNutter
So if that is correct, would this be Europe

http://discogs.programascracks.com/submissions?mode=saved#item=release/1586679

Agree with Eviltoastman that this is Europe as there are no distribution codes for specific for the UK.

Eviltoastman
mainly because nearly all UK releases I own include as par for the course include a "French" distribution code

Same with me. I tend to put UK & if it's just UK at the time because as ChampionJames says, it's there for a reason and if anyone has info otherwise, they can just change it to UK & Europe. But if it is already UK & Europe, I wouldn't change it to UK & .

jaseywacey
I tend to put UK & if it's just UK at the time because as ChampionJames says, it's there for a reason

Yes, we always think it's there for a reason. But what reason?

According to my example of the "Patric - Love Me" singles, it doesn't make much sense.
Because there would be 3 different releases for : the UK, German and French pressings.
And this is not even an international artist a la Madonna or Pet Shop Boys.

zipjezopje
Yes, we always think it's there for a reason. But what reason?

Love it. A line or two from "Limp Bizkit - Take A Look Around (Theme From MI:2)" (good vid too)
"Does anybody really know the secret?
Or the combination for this life and where they keep it?
It's kinda sad when you don't know the meanin'
But everything happens for a reason
(Everything happens for a reason)"

swagski
Then 'UK' should not be precluded from the tag.
By stating just 'Europe' it negates the existence of the 'UK & Europe' tag - leaving the field open for the same release to also be entered as just 'UK'.... which may then conflict with the issue that really is 'UK'... ;)

Exactly, yes. It's puzzling to me that this should be puzzling for anyone...

We have two different tags because the two tags are different. (~Confucius)